Thursday, October 19, 2006
This Day in American History
On this day in 1781, General Cornwallis surrendered his British forces to the American Army and militia under General George Washington at Yorktown, Virginia in the last major battle of the American Revolution (although peace would not come for two years). Cornwallis had counted on the British fleet to whisk him and his troops to safety in New York if he got into trouble on the peninsula between the York and James rivers, but the French fleet turned the Limeys back at the mouth of the Chesapeake and Cornwallis could not be rescued. I hate to say this, but we owe the French big time for the help (although our helping to liberate them from the Nazis probably balances the slate). The war would have almost certainly been lost without that crushing victory.
# posted by Roger Fraley @ 6:11 AM 
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The books were balanced in 1783, when the French tried to stab us in the back in the negotiations for the treaty (Treaty of Paris) that formally ended the revolution. Or, at the latest, they were balanced by the Quasi War (1798-1800).
France is not now, and has never been, an ally of the USA. France has occasionally been an unfriendly neutral with intersecting interests. For instance, their aid during the Revolutionary War was just a way to stab the British in the back.
France is not now, and has never been, an ally of the USA. France has occasionally been an unfriendly neutral with intersecting interests. For instance, their aid during the Revolutionary War was just a way to stab the British in the back.
Hear, hear, Doug.
Besides, Roger you forget WW I when the presence of Doughboys also pulled the French bacon out of the fire.
T
Besides, Roger you forget WW I when the presence of Doughboys also pulled the French bacon out of the fire.
T
# posted by 
: 8:31 PM
: 8:31 PM
I agree about the motivation for helping us, Doug. And there's whole book out there about how awful an ally France has been, but I can't recall its title. Yeah, I did ignore WWI, Tony. I think Germany was spent and even if the 1918 push had been successful, they still would have lost the war without our intervention. Tough theory to test, though.
I think your view of WWI is a minority view, but whether it is or not, it differs from mine. You need to remember that both the French and the British had had recent and widespread mutinies, and the German Stosstruppen (stormtroopers) had developed a tactic that was pretty effective in breaking the trench stalemate.
Also, with the collapse of Russia, the Germans were able to transfer lots of troops from the East in 1918. Without the AEF, I think the British and French would have been in very serious trouble.
Also, with the collapse of Russia, the Germans were able to transfer lots of troops from the East in 1918. Without the AEF, I think the British and French would have been in very serious trouble.
Oh, the book you are referring to is probably Our Oldest Enemy: A History of America's Disastrous Relationship with France.
It's pretty good.
(BTW, your Word Verification plugin seems to be coughing and choking a bit today. I'm only getting an image part about two-thirds of the time. And verification is failing about half of the time I do get an image.)
It's pretty good.
(BTW, your Word Verification plugin seems to be coughing and choking a bit today. I'm only getting an image part about two-thirds of the time. And verification is failing about half of the time I do get an image.)
Yes, that's the book. I have had problems with the word verification too, but the site is free so I can't bitch but so much.
Doug as to your view of WWI, I am aware of all that you say, as I'm sure you are aware that we weren't very good at the beginning of the war (although in WWI you needed men more than you needed good men). The transfer of men from the Eastern Front was a big advantage to the Germans and absent American Troops, I freely admit that there would have been even greater breakthroughs than there were in the 1918 push, but French troops always fought well in defense of their own country, so the mutiny stuff is immaterial and the Germans would have had to spread out as the front advanced into France and even as they won they would have sowed the seeds for a rapid collapse. Tough to test, though, as I said.
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