Wednesday, October 26, 2005
Thought of the Day
Science can purify religion from error and superstition. Religion can purify science from idolatry and false absolutes.
Pope John Paul II (Karol Wojtyla)
Pope John Paul II (Karol Wojtyla)
# posted by Roger Fraley @ 7:04 AM 
Comments:
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"Religion can purify science from idolatry and false absolutes."
Because, after all, nothing is more opposed to idols and absolutes than "religion".
Because, after all, nothing is more opposed to idols and absolutes than "religion".
You doubt the Pope? The Jesuits have your name now. I don't think I can help you. And the distinction was between true absolutes and false absolutes not between absolutes and whatever it is the Athiests use to guide things.
Is the Pope (or bishop of Rome, if you prefer) still infallible after he's dead? Would the analysis change if he were a pope who died before popes infallibly decided that they were infallible? (FWIW, I do understand the difference between ex cathedra and other speech.)
I will note that the quote said "religion", not "Catholicism*". At last check there were disagreements between various versions of "religion" on matters that said religions consider absolute. How is one to choose?
As to Atheism, you'd have to ask someone else, but science deals in probabilities, not absolutes.
As to the Society of Jesus, send 'em around. They're always useful whetstones on which to sharpen an argument.
* I'm always conflicted about how to refer to the Catholic (= "all inclusive") Church. It just seems too internally contradictory to use use "catholic" to differentiate a church from the other churches it does not include.
I find it especially interesting that for centuries in Europe the conflict was between the "all-inclusive" and "right-thinking" churches. Speaking of the difference between true and false absolutes....
I will note that the quote said "religion", not "Catholicism*". At last check there were disagreements between various versions of "religion" on matters that said religions consider absolute. How is one to choose?
As to Atheism, you'd have to ask someone else, but science deals in probabilities, not absolutes.
As to the Society of Jesus, send 'em around. They're always useful whetstones on which to sharpen an argument.
* I'm always conflicted about how to refer to the Catholic (= "all inclusive") Church. It just seems too internally contradictory to use use "catholic" to differentiate a church from the other churches it does not include.
I find it especially interesting that for centuries in Europe the conflict was between the "all-inclusive" and "right-thinking" churches. Speaking of the difference between true and false absolutes....
The Catholic Church used to be the all inclusive church. After the reformation it of course was no longer (but even the Portestants say they believe in the Holy Catholic Church in the Apostles Creed--which is why I think there's not a dime's worth of difference between Christian Churches).
"After the reformation it of course was no longer...."
Earlier than that. The Orthodox (right-thinking/believing) Church split from the Roman Catholic Church, for both political and religious reasons, centuries earlier. The rejection of the "Filioque" by the four eastern Patriarchates (which, by that time meant pretty much Constantinople, though there were still five nominally co-equal patriarchs) happened during the 8-11th centuries. (The dates are arguable, since there was much disputation, again for both political and religious reasons.)
"The Catholic Church used to be the all inclusive church."
Well, except for all the religions is explicitly rejected, of course. "Catholic" is a marketing term; the implication is that there are only the Catholic Church and plain error. But then that's pretty much the tone of the quote you referenced, too.
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Earlier than that. The Orthodox (right-thinking/believing) Church split from the Roman Catholic Church, for both political and religious reasons, centuries earlier. The rejection of the "Filioque" by the four eastern Patriarchates (which, by that time meant pretty much Constantinople, though there were still five nominally co-equal patriarchs) happened during the 8-11th centuries. (The dates are arguable, since there was much disputation, again for both political and religious reasons.)
"The Catholic Church used to be the all inclusive church."
Well, except for all the religions is explicitly rejected, of course. "Catholic" is a marketing term; the implication is that there are only the Catholic Church and plain error. But then that's pretty much the tone of the quote you referenced, too.
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